Education Series: Lesson 08
This is one of my favorites of the entire series. However, my attempt at levity may come across as “mean-spirited” to some. I’d really like some feedback on this regarding the tone. It’s just too hard to keep a straight face when you put the magnifying glass on the creation science movement!
Also, my “cheap shot” at the oil industry is intended to be tongue-and-cheek. I believe in the market, and in supply and demand, and people have just as much right to trade oil and gas futures as they do any other commodity — despite my displeasure at the pump.
Like the dot-coms of the 90’s and the current housing industry, the oil bubble will burst and there will be losers and winners. That the nature of the game we call capitalism. The alternative of govt’ price controls, which artificially increase demand while doing nothing to increase supply, only lead to shortages and rationing (remember the 1970’s?). And the company I presently consult for is a global service provider for the offshore oil and gas inustry. But sometimes it’s still fun to play to people’s misperceptions. But since nobody else but me thought it was appropriate in Lesson 01, I’m obviously open to criticism here as well.
July 4th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Nice work. I can see why you would re-shoot things like antipodes, but in my opinion, as far as the ZERO and NONE buzzers, you should put up whatever you feel like. Just because some people might think it is too harsh does not mean it would really impact people any less in the long run.
The evidence is powerful, so as long as you present it clearly, no one can argue with good integrity that a NONE buzzer discredits you. There has been talk of a “culture war” in Christianity over this stuff. But that gives creationism too much credibility. As soon as people have all the evidence in front of them, the war will be over. All we have to do is communicate it. We don’t need to strain over minuscule details because someone might take a teenie tiny offense and decide YEC is true. The evidence speaks for itself, once they hear it!
In sum: Great job!!
July 4th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Joe, that’s a very optimistic outlook. I hope you’re right. But I have found a high level of intransigence among conservative Christians which suggests to me a bloody culture war looming on the horizon. Many Christians have too much invested in their folk science to simply role over in the face of something so inconsequential as evidence!. Entire movements are founded upon special creationism, and young earth theories, against which the evidence has been lopsided for decades.
Gordon, another great video. Have you studied much in trace fossils … the fossilized “tracks” of various organisms in various sedimentary levels. Obviously, the organisms lived while they left such tracks. Obviously, those tracks dried and hardened before the next layer of sediment was laid down. These tracks are all over the geological record, and completely dispel even the remotest possibility of flood geology. Still, the case based upon petroleum geology is perhaps easier to make.
I have tried (usually without success) to make the point that the teaching of YEC predisposes many young people to ultimately abandon faith altogether when they come face to face with facts. I appreciate how you made this case.
July 4th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Gordon,
I’m not sure if Joe was making a subtle case against the ZERO and NONE buzzers, or it he was sincerely trying to preempt anticipated complaints. But I’ll go on record. Leave them if you wish (they are cute), but I found them a bit below your overall professional presentation.
July 4th, 2008 at 10:58 am
I can’t tell you how invaluable I think this series is going to be! You could get paid to write these sorts of things - oh, wait, you’re an author! But I mean I would like to see you writing and producing higher level videos than these for mass consumption and distribution. This was an excellent installment. My only negative thought on it was the ending.
When I got to the end, I (in the shoes of the YEC) was wondering, “How can I believe anything he said if he just poo-pooed the global flood? Did he just deny that such a flood existed at all?!” I realize your focus is towards science and not theology in classrooms, but as you and I are both aware, they won’t listen to science that looks like bad theology. You may do this in a later episode, but the fact that you leave this one without much hope for a response other than, “The Flood account doesn’t show good geology, and we may never know what it does show,” may be off-putting and warrant the devout to just stop the series right there. All I think you need is either an affirmation of a local flood (if you believe it’s, in some sense, an historical account - I think it’s more legendary) or a more explicit statement saying what you affirm about it, because all your professions of your belief in the authority of Scripture sound hollow if you say, “We may never know” what God’s word is saying to us; what’s the point of it being His word if there’s no hope for interpretation? I just thought your summary sounded more bleak than I think it is for you, and perhaps listing off alternative interpretations in summary fashion would at least give them more freedom to do something with the geology without feeling like they’re discarding all theology.
[obligatory editorial comments: 1) It's stra-TI-graphy - unfortunately this one's even more noticeable than antipodes. 2) The second slide from Hill read "hisory". 3) While you're at it, on that same slide you say "sedimentary rock" but it reads "sedimentary rocks" - I think the audio is correct here, so that's just a slide error.]
July 4th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Oh, and although I’m a firm capitalist, I didn’t think your remarks were untoward.
July 4th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Cliff:
My opinion is not that the organizations and leaders will change their minds. But the average person, I think, will, and there won’t be many left to listen to the leaders and orgs.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Stephen,
I’ll play with the wording at the end. I don’t want to place an unecessary stumbling block in the series before we get to the life science (re: evolution). Those will be difficult enough.
Thanks for the editorial stuff. Since I’m “self taught” on most the of the science-related material, I only ever read it (as opposed to sitting through lectures at the university level). So I never hear other people talking about these things — unless I happen to catch in on PBS/Nova/Discoverty/National Geographic/Science Channel. I’ll fix that in the redo.
July 4th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
I can’t believe your amazing understanding of these things from being self-taught. Have you considered pulling a Brian May?
July 4th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Stephen,
I have also marveled over Gordon’s grasp of these issues in light of the fact that his training is in engineering, and he mispronounces certain words (leading to the conclusion that he is very well read, but lacking in the formal academic training of the lecture hall. Gordon, I am in agreement with Stephen. I hope that with the help and input you are receiving here, you can keep honing your presentations and, at some point, find a much larger audience!
Joe,
Again, let me say, I hope you are right. But do you really think that good Calvary Chapel folk will reject YEC so long as Chuck Smith unequivocally endorses it as a major cornerstone of the whole movement?
July 4th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
Stephen/Cliff, thanks for the encouragement. Engineering has been my profession, but science has been my passion. I kind of like it that way. I do very well for myself in my vocation, and can study whatever interests me on the side. I talk to a lot of professional scientists who are frustrated at how narrow their focus has to be in a particular aspect of a particular field — almost to the point where they lose touch with other disciplines.
I actually like being able to read a wide variety of stuff, from astrophysics to molecular genetics, and repackage it for others in the context of a Christian worldview. That’s really all I do — plus dreaming up wacky analogies to drive the points home. As for making a living doing this… well, we’ll see about that.
And someday I do plan to go back and earn a PhD. People like Brian May and Tom are an inspiration to me in that regard. It’s never too late!
July 4th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
I think the quote/story at the end is a bit too long.
The background is spot on.
The buzzers were a bit harsh.
I agree with Stephen that you have to somehow not say that flood-belief is ridiculous. In which case, you have to get at the theology of Genesis and explain the meaning of these stories first, followed by the criticism of literal interpretations for anybody to really hear you. Unfortunately, that seems well beyond the scope of this series.
July 4th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Wow, more solid, logical arguments.
Ok, just so folks know, I’m commenting as a female who is currently living in the Bible belt. I’m surrounded by YEC and I’m pretty new these discussions. That said, I will go ahead boldly suggest that you ditch the ZERO and NONE buzzers. Your message is difficult for those who may be hearing it for the first time. The arguments speak for themselves, I see no need to affront a listener who may be carefully chewing on your message trying to unpack each word. It’s too jarring and feels out of place. I am reminded of Proverbs 15:1, use gentle words (and tactics) whenever possible.
One more thing to keep in mind, perhaps for the end of the series if its not already there. Many folks that are new to all of this will be left with strong emotions as they watch these videos. They may become defensive or incredulous or feel betrayed or confused or depressed. Your message can leave someone in the same crisis of faith that Morton faced. This is not a place to leave someone. Just an affirmation that this is hard stuff for those who have been in the YEC camp and some grounding back to the gospel would go a long way.
I though the end of is video finished strong, but when I read Stephen’s comments I had to agree that your final word on the flood is important. Here is an important place for solid theology- bring folks back to the sovereignty of God.
By the way, I am currently reading the book and enjoying your humor.
July 5th, 2008 at 5:53 am
Yea, I kind of knew the buzzers wouldn’t make it — but I though it would be fun for my in-house audience. That’s more like the way we feel about it — even though that’s probably not what people need to hear who are already having to make a difficult choice.
My last statement on the flood being an important biblical truth was intended to not be dismissive of the event. But rather to state the obvious that I’m not sure we can use whatever the event was as a scientific tool. I’ll have to work with this so it better conveys the message. I agree with Tom about what is really needed (insert other video series on science and the Bible here), but unfortunately it’s outside the scope of this lesson.
I’m thinking I should have a lesson at the end that deals with “bible science” in the same brief way I dealt with it in this post:
http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/
For me personally, I was convinced by the testimony of nature. After seeing over and over again how YEC/OEC science was convoluted and secular science was honestly trying to explain data with as few unfounded assumptions as possible, I returned to the scriptures to find out if it really requires us to take such untenable positions on natural history. Only then did I come accross the case for seeing God’s word through ANE eyes. Perahps that discussion belongs at the end of this series.
Another thing that is lacking, of which I’m slowly correcting as I continue to edit the script in preparation for the final production, is relaying each lesson point back to my central thesis — why is this important for Christian educators? Many viewers are probably already making that link mentally, but it would be good for me to reiterate as much in each lesson.
Keep the good comments coming! I imagine when things like this are produced professionally by an organization, it is a collaborative effort of several individuals with diverse backgrounds. Nothing done in isolation is ever as effective. So this forum is my “collaboration” and we are the “organization” making this videos series. Thanks!
All of you will receive a percentage of the profits — which unfortunately will be $0.00! (insert harsh sounding buzzer noise here).
July 5th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Ha!
I look forward to the check in the mail. (And for the record, I burst out laughing at the buzzers.)
July 5th, 2008 at 11:00 am
You might want to include, as you suggested, a video at the end in which you pull together your own personal faith, and your respect for the Bible, with the science you present throughout the series. Then, from time to time in the earlier video lessons, you could reference this “coming video” from time to time. In this way, you might retain audience that might otherwise be inclined to shut you off.
July 5th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Ok folks, I was working on this today. This is what I’ve got in the current script for the end of this lesson:
The final Lesson (15) will be my take on inspiration and the ANE cosmological context of the “science” found within the pages of Scripture. That should wrap of the series quite nicely.
July 5th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Bravo, Gordon! Excellent work.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:08 am
As with the others, Gordon, I admire your ability to put what can be confusing concepts into language and analogies that are effective.
Cliff wrote
From my perspective — an atheist in a small community that’s having a serious brouhaha over the teaching of creationism in science classes — we’re in a culture war now. People are demonstrating on the public square (literally), crowding BOE meetings and heckling speakers, and, sadly, threatening other people on occasion. Middle school kids who are themselves Christians but not vocal enough to suit the mob were physically shoved against lockers and called atheists. It’s ugly and mean-spirited and it has the potential to rip the community apart.
July 8th, 2008 at 8:31 am
A helpful tip about pronunciation I heard from Steven Novella: stress the semipenultimate syllable. I also read a lot but don’t get to speak to other nerds, and I’ve been embarassed more than once.