<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: PCA Report on Creation</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/</link>
	<description>Understanding Science and the Theology of Creation</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 15:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: GJG</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-559</link>
		<dc:creator>GJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/#comment-559</guid>
		<description>Hey Cliff, so you're the one buying my book!  Thanks.  Actually, I think some other people are buying it too.  Sales have been good over the last two weeks.

You've hit the nail on the head.  In fact, your situation is sort of what inspired me to start this next project.  Also, if you read the Amazon reviews on all the books coming out on Evolution and Christianity, authors get low scores for two reasons: (1) because the reviewer doesn't agree with evolution, or (2) because the author avoided the theological problems of evolution -- such as original sin and death before the fall.  In fact, my one 4-star review on Amazon.ca was because I choose not to really tackle those types of issues.  But those are the issues that threaten to tear the Church apart.  Hence the focus of my next book.

GJG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Cliff, so you&#8217;re the one buying my book!  Thanks.  Actually, I think some other people are buying it too.  Sales have been good over the last two weeks.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve hit the nail on the head.  In fact, your situation is sort of what inspired me to start this next project.  Also, if you read the Amazon reviews on all the books coming out on Evolution and Christianity, authors get low scores for two reasons: (1) because the reviewer doesn&#8217;t agree with evolution, or (2) because the author avoided the theological problems of evolution &#8212; such as original sin and death before the fall.  In fact, my one 4-star review on Amazon.ca was because I choose not to really tackle those types of issues.  But those are the issues that threaten to tear the Church apart.  Hence the focus of my next book.</p>
<p>GJG</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cliff Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-558</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/#comment-558</guid>
		<description>Thank you Gordon for filling in the details of how your views fit (or fail to fit) the church group of which you are a part. I've wondered. 

It is a little different for me, being in leadership in my local church and in the network of churches we belong to. My views must be taken into account, and dealt with at all levels. The road has been rocky, but seem to have taken some positive turns of late. 

I often wonder where the theologically conservative church will line up on all these issues 15 years from now. And what needless ruin may lie in our wake.

Your post restates your BTF thesis more fully and with clarity. It is helpful to set ourselves in the historical context of the first readers of Genesis. You help us to do just that. I am looking forward to your follow-up book. I just received my fifth or sixth copy of BTF. I keep "loaning" them out, and replacing my own copy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Gordon for filling in the details of how your views fit (or fail to fit) the church group of which you are a part. I&#8217;ve wondered. </p>
<p>It is a little different for me, being in leadership in my local church and in the network of churches we belong to. My views must be taken into account, and dealt with at all levels. The road has been rocky, but seem to have taken some positive turns of late. </p>
<p>I often wonder where the theologically conservative church will line up on all these issues 15 years from now. And what needless ruin may lie in our wake.</p>
<p>Your post restates your BTF thesis more fully and with clarity. It is helpful to set ourselves in the historical context of the first readers of Genesis. You help us to do just that. I am looking forward to your follow-up book. I just received my fifth or sixth copy of BTF. I keep &#8220;loaning&#8221; them out, and replacing my own copy!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GJG</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-535</link>
		<dc:creator>GJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 18:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/#comment-535</guid>
		<description>Hi Stoneman, welcome to my blog and thanks for the comment.  I'm probably painting with too broad of a brush when I lump the framework and analogical day views in with the others.  Indeed, there is nothing in these views that is necessarily antithetical with understanding the ANE cosmological context of the Genesis Creation narrative.  In fact, one of my book reviews on Amazon.com categorized my views as "framework" -- so I probably should have made that distinction here.

My criticism here would be more approapriately aimed at the Comittee's treatment of the Framework view rather than the view itself.  I'm glad you brought this up because I'm sure others had the same reaction but just didn't comment.

I hope you enjoy the book!

GJG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Stoneman, welcome to my blog and thanks for the comment.  I&#8217;m probably painting with too broad of a brush when I lump the framework and analogical day views in with the others.  Indeed, there is nothing in these views that is necessarily antithetical with understanding the ANE cosmological context of the Genesis Creation narrative.  In fact, one of my book reviews on Amazon.com categorized my views as &#8220;framework&#8221; &#8212; so I probably should have made that distinction here.</p>
<p>My criticism here would be more approapriately aimed at the Comittee&#8217;s treatment of the Framework view rather than the view itself.  I&#8217;m glad you brought this up because I&#8217;m sure others had the same reaction but just didn&#8217;t comment.</p>
<p>I hope you enjoy the book!</p>
<p>GJG</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Boar&#8217;s Head Tavern &#187;</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-512</link>
		<dc:creator>The Boar&#8217;s Head Tavern &#187;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/#comment-512</guid>
		<description>[...] approach to these issues is Beyond the Firmament by Gordon Glover. See his post on the PCA report here.   Posted by: Joel Hunter @ 5:41 pm &#124; Trackback &#124; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] approach to these issues is Beyond the Firmament by Gordon Glover. See his post on the PCA report here.   Posted by: Joel Hunter @ 5:41 pm | Trackback | [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GJG</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-497</link>
		<dc:creator>GJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/#comment-497</guid>
		<description>So true!  After the "new perspective on Paul/Federal Vision" ugliness hit the PCA, we used the opportunity of a PCS move to take a break from all of the infighting.  We went to an emergent evangelical Church for a few years and enjoyed the peacefull fellowship.  But we eventually missed the intellectual stimulation of our PCA roots, so we're back now.  Nevertheless, it was nice to see what the rest of God's church is up to for a time.  

My comment about Revelation at the end of the post was just for you!  Even though preterism is not the focus of my ministry, I do think that the same mindset that causes folks to trip over Revelation also causes them to trip over Genesis.  Basically, people read the text as if written directly to them -- rather than TO THEM VIA a distant audience with a completely different set of presuppositions and concerns.

GJG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So true!  After the &#8220;new perspective on Paul/Federal Vision&#8221; ugliness hit the PCA, we used the opportunity of a PCS move to take a break from all of the infighting.  We went to an emergent evangelical Church for a few years and enjoyed the peacefull fellowship.  But we eventually missed the intellectual stimulation of our PCA roots, so we&#8217;re back now.  Nevertheless, it was nice to see what the rest of God&#8217;s church is up to for a time.  </p>
<p>My comment about Revelation at the end of the post was just for you!  Even though preterism is not the focus of my ministry, I do think that the same mindset that causes folks to trip over Revelation also causes them to trip over Genesis.  Basically, people read the text as if written directly to them &#8212; rather than TO THEM VIA a distant audience with a completely different set of presuppositions and concerns.</p>
<p>GJG</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Beidler</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-496</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Beidler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/#comment-496</guid>
		<description>Yes, they do need you!  If I found a church that reflected my doctrinal views in all ways, I'd probably end up joining my own cult ... not that I've thought about starting one.  ;-)

We're getting ready to move to Monterey, CA, and I'm hoping we can find a theologically conservative church that allows for freedom in matters of origins and eschatology.  Our previous church was great in that respect, but the internal divisions and back-biting politics made it spiritually unhealthy to stay.  Ironically, we found a temporary home in the PCUSA church, a denomination with which I disagree on a number of doctrines; the life of the church, however, abounds with the Spirit of God and much of the interpersonal bickering is nowhere to be found.  I'd rather attend a YEC/Dispy church that follows the Spirit than an TE/Preterist church that is characterized by rotten fruit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, they do need you!  If I found a church that reflected my doctrinal views in all ways, I&#8217;d probably end up joining my own cult &#8230; not that I&#8217;ve thought about starting one.  <img src='http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>We&#8217;re getting ready to move to Monterey, CA, and I&#8217;m hoping we can find a theologically conservative church that allows for freedom in matters of origins and eschatology.  Our previous church was great in that respect, but the internal divisions and back-biting politics made it spiritually unhealthy to stay.  Ironically, we found a temporary home in the PCUSA church, a denomination with which I disagree on a number of doctrines; the life of the church, however, abounds with the Spirit of God and much of the interpersonal bickering is nowhere to be found.  I&#8217;d rather attend a YEC/Dispy church that follows the Spirit than an TE/Preterist church that is characterized by rotten fruit.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GJG</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-495</link>
		<dc:creator>GJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 19:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/#comment-495</guid>
		<description>Mike,

I agree with that statement.  It makes a lot of sense.  For now, I'm happy to remain PCA -- even if my views of creation might fit better with PCUSA.  The PCA needs folks like me!

Thanks for checking in!
Gordon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>I agree with that statement.  It makes a lot of sense.  For now, I&#8217;m happy to remain PCA &#8212; even if my views of creation might fit better with PCUSA.  The PCA needs folks like me!</p>
<p>Thanks for checking in!<br />
Gordon</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/comment-page-1/#comment-488</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2008/01/29/pca-report-on-creation/#comment-488</guid>
		<description>Very interesting post.  I really, really like Enns I&amp;I and am rereading his book again.  Also following his blog.   I do have a couple of questions for you on the PCA.

1. I'm not Presbyterian &amp; so am a little confused about all the different groups.  I know you guys (along with the baptists) were the key 2 denominations that split during the fundy/liberal row in the 20's.   Do you have a brief overview of where the PCA fits in with, for eg. the Orthodox Presbyterians &amp; the other myriads of Presbyterians?

2. I checked out the PCA creation statement, and it says that:

"In these chapters we find the record of God's creation of the heavens and the earth* ex nihilo*; of the special creation of Adam and Eve as actual human beings, the parents of all humanity (hence they are not the products of evolution from lower forms of life)."

How rigorously is this applied in your denomination?  Would a minister that subscribes to common descent be removed from office?  Are you personally taking a risk wrt your own church membership with the publishing of your book &amp; your blog?

Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting post.  I really, really like Enns I&amp;I and am rereading his book again.  Also following his blog.   I do have a couple of questions for you on the PCA.</p>
<p>1. I&#8217;m not Presbyterian &amp; so am a little confused about all the different groups.  I know you guys (along with the baptists) were the key 2 denominations that split during the fundy/liberal row in the 20&#8217;s.   Do you have a brief overview of where the PCA fits in with, for eg. the Orthodox Presbyterians &amp; the other myriads of Presbyterians?</p>
<p>2. I checked out the PCA creation statement, and it says that:</p>
<p>&#8220;In these chapters we find the record of God&#8217;s creation of the heavens and the earth* ex nihilo*; of the special creation of Adam and Eve as actual human beings, the parents of all humanity (hence they are not the products of evolution from lower forms of life).&#8221;</p>
<p>How rigorously is this applied in your denomination?  Would a minister that subscribes to common descent be removed from office?  Are you personally taking a risk wrt your own church membership with the publishing of your book &amp; your blog?</p>
<p>Steve</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

