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	<title>Comments on: Missed Opportunities? Part 2</title>
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	<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2007/12/31/missed-opportunities-part-2/</link>
	<description>Understanding Science and the Theology of Creation</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 15:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: GJG</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2007/12/31/missed-opportunities-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-458</link>
		<dc:creator>GJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2007/12/31/missed-opportunities-part-2/#comment-458</guid>
		<description>Welcome RBH, very insightful comments.  I'm actually working on a collection of essays that I'm trying to get published as a follow-on to my book.  In there, I plan to dive deeply into the issues that I intentionally avoided before, like human evolution and the theological implications (original sin, covenental headship, etc...).  I'll keep your thoughts in mind as well.

GJG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome RBH, very insightful comments.  I&#8217;m actually working on a collection of essays that I&#8217;m trying to get published as a follow-on to my book.  In there, I plan to dive deeply into the issues that I intentionally avoided before, like human evolution and the theological implications (original sin, covenental headship, etc&#8230;).  I&#8217;ll keep your thoughts in mind as well.</p>
<p>GJG</p>
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		<title>By: RBH</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2007/12/31/missed-opportunities-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-456</link>
		<dc:creator>RBH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 02:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2007/12/31/missed-opportunities-part-2/#comment-456</guid>
		<description>I'm coming late to this, and as an atheist and scientist perhaps am out of place, but I have at least one comment that may contribute.  Some time ago I was invited to give a talk on evolution and its relation to religion to a class of adults at a church -- protestant, moderate -- nearby.  

I live in a fairly small community that went through a hassle about creationism in the public schools several years ago, instigated by a middle school teacher who is a fundadmentalist, and I was vocal in defending the teaching of 'unadulterated' science.  Hence the invitation.

Part of my goal during that hassle was to preserve the community, not letting the discussion/debate degenerate into the kind of rancor one later saw in Dover, PA.  We succeeded in that while maintaining the science curriculum intact.  A good part of why we managed not to tear the community apart was purposefully keeping outside agencies on both sides away from participation.

At the church class I suggested that if one thinks of the Christian God as a creative divinity, then the church has to work out the relationship between the two words -- "creative" and "divinity" -- in such a way as to not do violence to what we learn from what Christians call the General Revelation.  They were receptive to that -- again, they are moderate protestants, not fundamentalists -- but we didn't have time in the hour I was there to pursue it further.  But I was encouraged by their reception.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m coming late to this, and as an atheist and scientist perhaps am out of place, but I have at least one comment that may contribute.  Some time ago I was invited to give a talk on evolution and its relation to religion to a class of adults at a church &#8212; protestant, moderate &#8212; nearby.  </p>
<p>I live in a fairly small community that went through a hassle about creationism in the public schools several years ago, instigated by a middle school teacher who is a fundadmentalist, and I was vocal in defending the teaching of &#8216;unadulterated&#8217; science.  Hence the invitation.</p>
<p>Part of my goal during that hassle was to preserve the community, not letting the discussion/debate degenerate into the kind of rancor one later saw in Dover, PA.  We succeeded in that while maintaining the science curriculum intact.  A good part of why we managed not to tear the community apart was purposefully keeping outside agencies on both sides away from participation.</p>
<p>At the church class I suggested that if one thinks of the Christian God as a creative divinity, then the church has to work out the relationship between the two words &#8212; &#8220;creative&#8221; and &#8220;divinity&#8221; &#8212; in such a way as to not do violence to what we learn from what Christians call the General Revelation.  They were receptive to that &#8212; again, they are moderate protestants, not fundamentalists &#8212; but we didn&#8217;t have time in the hour I was there to pursue it further.  But I was encouraged by their reception.</p>
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		<title>By: geocreationism.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; “Evidence for Creation” (Review) - Chapter 4 “Evidence from Life” (Part 2)</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2007/12/31/missed-opportunities-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator>geocreationism.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; “Evidence for Creation” (Review) - Chapter 4 “Evidence from Life” (Part 2)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 06:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2007/12/31/missed-opportunities-part-2/#comment-416</guid>
		<description>[...] reading the following posts on Gorden J. Glover&#8217;s blog for some good discussions on this: Missed Opportunities? Part 2, where he discusses opportunities God had for making every living thing chemically unique&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reading the following posts on Gorden J. Glover&#8217;s blog for some good discussions on this: Missed Opportunities? Part 2, where he discusses opportunities God had for making every living thing chemically unique&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2007/12/31/missed-opportunities-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-393</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 05:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2007/12/31/missed-opportunities-part-2/#comment-393</guid>
		<description>Good post, Gordon. A few thoughts to add ...

I share your vision of the impending train wreck. I began a search for scientist/theologians years ago, and was dismayed to see how compartmentalized these disciplines have become. Gone are the days of Newton. Driven by faith to understand his world, Newton advanced our collective knowledge of the cosmos as much as any individual before or since. But he never lost sight of theology, and spent the last years of his life immersed in his theological studies. There is John Polkinghorne, but few American evangelicals will relate to his theology. 

The marriage of theology and science is not likely to occur until theologians adjust their epistemology, to acknowledge that God has spoken/does speak through Creation. That premise formed the basis of, and fueled the advance of scientific inquiry up until Darwin. The anti-science bias that infected the church at the turn of the last century (when evolution was wrongly coupled together with the threat of higher criticism) is lamentable, and has had the effect of closing off the church from this remarkable stream of divine revelation. And this during the century of the greatest advances in our understanding of Creation! Sad.

But more than sad, it can be disastrous. For when the theologians abandoned science, we essentially deeded it over to secularists and materialists. Now they use science like a club to beat up on believers. And the club is getting bigger by the moment! You are sounding a much needed clarion call. I hope you can rouse some theologians to action!

btw, I just received my copy of &lt;i&gt;Relics of Eden&lt;/i&gt;. Wow. Thanks for recommending this book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, Gordon. A few thoughts to add &#8230;</p>
<p>I share your vision of the impending train wreck. I began a search for scientist/theologians years ago, and was dismayed to see how compartmentalized these disciplines have become. Gone are the days of Newton. Driven by faith to understand his world, Newton advanced our collective knowledge of the cosmos as much as any individual before or since. But he never lost sight of theology, and spent the last years of his life immersed in his theological studies. There is John Polkinghorne, but few American evangelicals will relate to his theology. </p>
<p>The marriage of theology and science is not likely to occur until theologians adjust their epistemology, to acknowledge that God has spoken/does speak through Creation. That premise formed the basis of, and fueled the advance of scientific inquiry up until Darwin. The anti-science bias that infected the church at the turn of the last century (when evolution was wrongly coupled together with the threat of higher criticism) is lamentable, and has had the effect of closing off the church from this remarkable stream of divine revelation. And this during the century of the greatest advances in our understanding of Creation! Sad.</p>
<p>But more than sad, it can be disastrous. For when the theologians abandoned science, we essentially deeded it over to secularists and materialists. Now they use science like a club to beat up on believers. And the club is getting bigger by the moment! You are sounding a much needed clarion call. I hope you can rouse some theologians to action!</p>
<p>btw, I just received my copy of <i>Relics of Eden</i>. Wow. Thanks for recommending this book.</p>
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		<title>By: geocreationist</title>
		<link>http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2007/12/31/missed-opportunities-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-388</link>
		<dc:creator>geocreationist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 06:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com/2007/12/31/missed-opportunities-part-2/#comment-388</guid>
		<description>I think that part of the challenge for theologians will be to demonstrate why it is our prejudices that conflict with science, not our theology.  The next step will be to demonstrate how our theology is truly reflected in what science is discovering.

One approach that I have attempted on my blog is to present evidence for the different roles played by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit during creation.  One of my most satisfying discoveries (not original I hope) is that the creation accounts in Genesis 1, Job 38, Psalm 104, and Proverbs 8, meld together quite nicely if the Earth is Old, but reduce to mere poetry if the earth is young.  

This will sound like heresy to some, but for me, accepting an Old Earth helps me take the scriptures MORE seriously, not less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that part of the challenge for theologians will be to demonstrate why it is our prejudices that conflict with science, not our theology.  The next step will be to demonstrate how our theology is truly reflected in what science is discovering.</p>
<p>One approach that I have attempted on my blog is to present evidence for the different roles played by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit during creation.  One of my most satisfying discoveries (not original I hope) is that the creation accounts in Genesis 1, Job 38, Psalm 104, and Proverbs 8, meld together quite nicely if the Earth is Old, but reduce to mere poetry if the earth is young.  </p>
<p>This will sound like heresy to some, but for me, accepting an Old Earth helps me take the scriptures MORE seriously, not less.</p>
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